RFU

10 Jun 2020 | 10 min |

John Spencer: Firsts & Lasts

In the latest of our series, we speak to John Spencer about his first and last Tests leading England Rugby as captain.

John Spencer’s spiritual home is Wharfedale RUFC in Yorkshire, where he is President. He played for them into his 40s, having returned to his home club from Headingley, England and British & Irish Lions duties.

A Cambridge Blue in the Varsity Matches of 1967, 68 and 69, he captained them in his last season. 

Having played at 10 for England Schools, it was at centre that he excelled, earning his first England cap aged 21 against Ireland at Lansdowne Road.

He captained England aged 23, becoming the youngest skipper at that time, and was in charge during the RFU’s centenary season.

John toured with the Lions to New Zealand in 1971, played for the Barbarians 23 times, and earned 14 England caps in all, scoring two tries for his nation.

He went on to be RFU President for the 2017/18 season and tour manager for the Lions 2017 tour to New Zealand. He served on both the Six Nations Board and World Rugby Council.

His four stints as England captain began as he was taking his Law Society finals and ended with a match against some of the best players in the world in front of Her Majesty the Queen and Prince Philip.

First 13 February 1971 v Ireland at Lansdowne Road (England 9-6 Ireland) 

“Albert Agar, the chairman of selectors, rang me at the start of match week to say they’d like me to captain England but swore me to secrecy.  I didn’t even tell my mother who asked why I was shaking when I came off the phone. I just said it was a call about training. I couldn’t tell my friends in the pub but I told my mum on the Tuesday night before they announced it on the Wednesday. Then my dad rang me because he saw it in the paper! They were both so proud and supportive, dad never missed a Headingley match.

“It was a bit peculiar because I had to fly to Dublin on the Thursday when I was taking my Law Society finals in Leeds that morning. The RFU arranged for a police escort to Leeds Bradford airport and I had another escort when I arrived in Dublin and was on my way to training.

“I’d played 10 Tests by then but I wasn’t a senior player at just 23. When I got my first cap in ‘69 we’d become the first nation to have a coach, with the appointment of Don White. It was really all about the selectors. You’d have three trial matches each season, the first two at Durham and Falmouth and the final trial at Twickenham.  It was Blues v Whites, Probables v Possibles and England v the Rest.

'Selection was very inconsistent'

"We used to joke about who’d got a T-shirt saying ‘I was never dropped by Micky Steele-Bodger’. Selection was very inconsistent. Micky was a selector, then chairman of selectors, and only three of us could have worn that T-shirt over three seasons. Tony Bucknall was the captain for the ’71 season but we lost to Wales away and they dropped him. You never knew why you were being dropped.

“When the selectors made me captain I was in shock, you don’t expect that honour but I suppose it was because I’d had the experience of captaining Cambridge. I went straight to Thursday training from the plane and there was a film that evening to keep us under control with the Guinness beckoning. Then there was some light training at Lansdowne Road on the Friday. 

“England weren’t doing very well at the time, so at the team meeting on the Friday night I said it was essential to get a win under our belts and to do that we needed to be disciplined, to focus on our own job and to be ruthless. I repeated that to the media and got criticised for using the word ruthless. 

“We provided our own shorts, got given socks for the season and an England shirt every time we played. We were better off than some. I played 10 years in the centre at Headingley with Ian McGeechan, so I knew the Scots only got one shirt and had to pay for any others.

“At the team hotel on the morning of the match someone from Adidas came to clean up the white stripes on our boots, especially those of the kickers. We loaded up our kit onto the bus and then on the way to the stadium the nerves kicked in. I could see all the fans waving and we were in the changing room an hour and a half before the whistle.

“Before we went out I gave a similar team talk to the night before and then we were on the pitch lined up and I was introducing Irish dignitaries to the team, trying not to use players’ nicknames. I knew my parents were somewhere in the crowd but I didn’t want to look up, I was so nervous singing the anthem.

Embraced by chairman of selectors

“As soon as the ball was in play I was fine and we were all desperate for a win, which we got thanks to Bob Hiller’s three penalties against two Irish tries, a try being awarded just three points back then. The relief at the final whistle was amazing. Albert Agar met me in the tunnel, embraced me and lifted me off my feet. The changing room atmosphere was great, we’d done it, got a win when we were going through a poor period and they were unlikely to change a winning team.

“It was back to the hotel to change into dinner jackets and I dashed round to my mum’s hotel to see her for five minutes before heading for the post-match function at the Shelbourne. As a young captain, I was so grateful for advice from people like David Duckham who’d got his first cap with me and told me if the players were happy and if I was doing OK.

“But speaking at the dinner was nerve wracking that first time. I remember having plenty of Guinness. I needn’t have worried though because the captain’s speech hasn’t changed in 50 years. You exchange ties, say what a good guy the ref is and wish the opposition luck for their next match.

“It was the RFU’s centenary year, with masses of publicity, and the Union went to town with celebrations. What a time for the captaincy to fall into my lap but there wasn’t much time to reflect on it, it was straight back on the plane to players’ nearest airports and then waiting for the team to be announced for the next weekend.”

English centre forward John Spencer of the British Lions, at Astbourne, where the team are training for their summer tour of Australia, 24th May 1971. (Photo by Reg Speller/Fox Photos/Hulton Archive/Getty Images)

Last 17 April 1971 the RFU Centenary game at Twickenham (England 11- 28 President’s XV)

“We’d played Scotland twice, once at home in the Five Nations and then a week later in Scotland to mark the centenary of the Calcutta Cup. We had the dubious distinction of being the first England team to lose to Scotland at Twickenham since 1938 and we were facing some of the world’s star players after they had beaten three English regional teams in the run up to the Twickenham showpiece. The opposition included some immense players, the likes of their captain Brian Lochore, Jo Maso, Ian Kirkpatrick, Colin Meads, Bryan Williams. 

“I wasn’t even sure of my place in the England team as I’d fallen out with one of the England hierarchy after the Scotland match. We always went to the Hilton post match and the captain hosted some players and selectors in a suite.  This guy came uninvited because none of the team liked him. He always told you how badly you’d played and why you shouldn’t ever be in the team again, which is exactly what he did to me that night. Then he threw a £20 note down and ordered me to get him a drink. He continued to command me to buy him a drink until I lost my temper and our coach Don White held me back.

“He later wrote apologising for his “boorish behaviour” but I was that relieved to see I was still captain and what a day it was, what a huge event.  Nobody told me I was to introduce the Queen and Prince Philip to the team until we were practically in the tunnel going out as they thought it would lessen the pressure. It was the worst thing to do because had I known, I’d have had some idea which side to stand and how to handle it.

“The result was fairly predictable against a side of that quality. Bryan Williams scored a hat-trick, there were two from Ian Kirkpatrick and one from prop Hannes Marais, Pierre Villepreux converted five. We had Peter Dixon making his debut at 8 and Roger Creed as flanker. All our points came courtesy of Bob Hiller who scored a try, which he converted, and slotted two penalties.

Lost in a room with Prince Philip

“It was a massive day of celebration with Presidents from every England club in a big marquee in the West Car Park.  Brian Lochore and I accompanied the Queen and Prince Philip to meet everyone and then Prince Philip came to the dinner. For some reason they put Prince Philip and me in a separate room before the meal and then they couldn’t find us. All the other diners were waiting and waiting until we were discovered. We had a really good chat about all sorts of things while we were lost. He was excellent company.

“Then, at dinner I got a rollicking from Micky Steele-Bodger for asking Prince Philip if he would sign my match programme. He snatched it away, said how dare I ask but I was 23 and thought it was OK. I saw Brian Lochore getting his programme signed though.

“What an amazing season that was and what an honour to be captain of England. I had such wonderful people offering advice and support, from Billy Bremner who I met when I went to Leeds United for physio on hamstring injuries, to Fred Truman who was incredibly supportive, wrote letters, came to see me and would always give a forthright opinion.

“And what a great bunch of players, both among the team and the opposition. At the end of that season five of us from England went out to New Zealand with the Lions: David Duckham, John Pullin, Peter Dixon, Bob Hiller and me, then Stack Stevens came out as an injury replacement. Rugby allowed me to meet people from across the world, to make lasting friendships with so many.

“To play for and captain England is something you cherish. You take out the pictures and you sit there smiling.  If I was born again, Yorkshire and England is what I would want to represent and to keep playing at Wharfedale aged 42 in the sixth team."

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